Legendaries On Competitive Teams

Chewya wrote:This is the same situation with Super Smash Bros. Some fighter/Pokemon are deemed better/worst by the tiers and it affects usually who uses them in competeative play. Some pokemon are actually better than the tier they belong in. The tier system is unfair and unjust. If you know how to use them you'll understand the tier system is a load of crap. Im sorry but its true. I checked.

Tier system in Brawl: load of preferential crap, I can kill Meta Knight with Jigglypuff. Freaking Jigglypuff.

Tier system in Pokemon: Charmander (NU) still can't beat Salamence (OU) which can't beat Mewtwo (uber). The tiers in Pokemon's competitive play are there to keep the people who play entire teams of ubers from decimating people who use OU and UU instead. Likewise, there's matches specifically for the lower tiers; if you wanna play unevolved Pokemon, there's NU tournaments for that. Some Pokemon, if used well, can certainly fit into the tier above; many UUs are just fine, stat-wise, they just fill a niche that's taken by something superior in OU or uber; Flygon, for example, simply can't compete with Garchomp, stat-wise.

Chewya wrote:I know but pokemon are put into teirs though. Often lots of lists are put out about the top# of pokemon. Often they are just the same pokemon. I mean you don't even see Blissey who has one of the highest health gains and defense in the game.

Again, they're put into tiers simply to keep one person's standard Pokemon from being obliterated by another person's ubers; as opposed to SSB tiers, which I can't seem to find any logical purpose in.

As for Blissey: It's got the highest HP in the game. Plus very high Sp. Defense. However, have you ever -looked- at its Defense? I'm pretty sure it's 10. 20, tops. It can happily wall Special moves all day, but soon as you hit it with some Physical, Fighting move, it'll most likely die in one hit. This is because it -does- have a glaring weakness, and that weakness is basically all strong Physical attacks.

As opposed to something like Rayquaza; which has a whopping 150 in each attack stat, average defenses, a decent amount of HP and Speed, and only three weaknesses. That in mind, the only real -problem- it has is the fact that it has a 4x weakness to the one type that pretty much everything in the OU and uber category uses to deal with the myriad overpowered Dragon Pokemon.

Long story short:

Rayquaza is an uber sweeper with absurd offenses and a weakness to ice moves.
Blissey is an OU wall with absurd HP and a weakness to ALL PHYSICAL ATTACKS.

Walls in ubers tend to be a bit more balanced all-around (i.e. Giratina), while retaining decent offensive abilities (Blissey is almost incapable of fighting directly). Walls in OU, on the other hand, tend to be really strong in one stat and weak in the other (Blissey, Steelix, Snorlax, etc.). This makes them much easier to deal with than the defensive ubers, which tend to have a high, equal spread in both defenses, plus a nice bulky amount of HP.

Blissey actually has very weak defense. It can be easily one hit KO'd despite it's high HP. That's why it isn't up top.

Pokemon is an RPG. It's kind of a lot more predictable than Brawl, which is why I think the tier list is a lot more accurate than in Brawl. Slightly off topic: Yoshi > Meta Knight ;D *Shot*

I'm talking from a LvL 100 perspective. I've fought many Blissey and when they get up there in levels their defense is strong. the some level pokemon [Blazikne for example] could use Double Kick or Sky uppercut and if it does its damage Double kick ususally takes 1/4 of the heatlth bar and Sky Uppercut does 1/2 the bar. And thats coming from a Blaziken on LVL 100 with a fist plate

Erm... your Blaziken must have some godawful Attack if it can't beat a Blissey using physical, Fighting-type moves, boosted by a Fist Plate. I'm sorry, but Blissey's Defense is so low that virtually all its defense against Physical attacks comes from its giant HP stat.

I've had problems fighting Blisseys using physical moves, too... but nothing -that- severe. A super-effective physical move should definitely take out at least half its health, if it isn't Rock Smash or something. Heck... if a Porygon-Z with Hyper Beam is able to OHKO Blissey on its -good- defense, then whatever's making your Blaziken unable to defeat one is a problem on your end, not an advantage on Blissey's part.

I mean, seriously. That Blaziken has to have some seriously bad Attack to do -that- bad against Blissey. I'm sorry, but what you said that its Defense is strong when it gets to high levels? ... The base stat for Blissey's defense, I just checked, is 10. The very highest number Blissey's actual Defense stat can be at level 100 is 130, assuming a good nature, 31 IV, and maxed EVs. 130 Defense is horrible by pretty much any standard. Blissey's Special Attack (which is subpar at best, itself) can exceed 130 at level 50. Ipso facto, Blissey's defense isn't bad, it's horrible. Only four Pokemon have worse base stats in -any- stat: Chansey and Happiny have a mere 5 in both Attack and Defense, Shuckle has 5 Speed, and Shedinja has its 1 in HP.

No offense, but I'd give that Blaziken some special moves instead. It's got a shameful Attack stat if it can barely dent a Blissey with Sky Uppercut. If its Attack is that bad, its Special Attack must be a lot better.

Hey I ususally kill everything else with those moves. It was just the Blissey. It had a high defensive stat when i checked. And plus it could be the gender. They did say gender affects stats but it was the same problem even with a male pokemon. The Blisseys can a) have high defense b) have healing moves and c) actually learn a few Special Attacks like Flamethrower. Its also a pain in the ass with its healing moves. It can [if trained right to LVL 100] have up to 300-400 health. Thats more than any pokemon I had which makes it a lot harder to kill.
My Blaziken all will know Blaze Kick, Overheat, Double Kick, and Sky Uppercut. It just cant change the moves [or bring my self to do it. It was my first ever pokemon].

Chewya wrote:gender affects stats

In GEN III on ward gender i determined by a diffrent number.

I thought, atually I've heard that the gender determies some states are a little better like males are mostly attacking [Att Spec Att.] stats and females are mostly defensive stats(def ans Spec. Def]

Blissey's maximum Defense is still 130. It cannot go higher than that. Softboiled is the only problem, really... but if you're doing a respectable amount of damage, that should only let it stall for a couple turns.

Also... gender does NOT affect stats. At all. It only (in some species) changes the appearance, and even then only starting in fourth gen. Though, in second gen, it can affect IVs a little. That doesn't happen anymore, however.

... Why not change the moves, by the way? I can understand the sentimentality, but... two Fire and two Fighting moves isn't all that... balanced. Though, of course, move options in Gen III can be a little sparse. It gets Brave Bird in Gen IV, which is one of its best new Physical options, along with Flare Blitz.

But, yeah... always using the same moveset and nickname for sentimental purposes seems a bit silly, no offense. I can understand the nickname, but... you make it sound like you've got a small army of Blazikens all named Blazeman or Blazewoman that have those exact moves. Which, yeah, is a little bit ridiculous. Besides, using both Double Kick and Sky Uppercut... why not just Sky Uppercut? And replace the first one with... I dunno, Dig or something. Double Kick is... kinda bad. ._. I mean, if you'd taught it Rock Smash as a Combusken just because nothing else you had could use the move, would you teach ever subsequent Blaziken ever Rock Smash?

And, seriously, I can understand sentimentality. I once made an entire tribute-team to the Pokemon I was training on Silver version when I lost my data on that game. Complete with all the dumb nicknames I gave 'em back in the day. But I didn't go so far as to keep the exact same moves; that's just kinda ridiculous. x.x

"I do but I made some changes adding a few moves in diamond and Platinum. I dont touch thier moves in Ruby, and Sapphire and i dont even use it in emerald. All of my Blazikens come from the same game (migration restart if i screw up horribly] So they're moves are the same. I'm just peeved the removed mirror move. That helped me beat Gym leaders before sky uppercut.
There is a non- written down worded rule amoung many pokemon players, never to teach starters or legendaries HMs except surf and Fly. Plus would you not breed you favorite pokemon with assorted moves, keeping Overheat, Blaze Kick and Sky Uppercut [in my cases]. I just always get the same moves when breeding.

You always get the same moves when breeding the same two Pokemon. >.> If they know the same moves and don't get any new ones by being raised in the Daycare, they get, by priority:

1. Learnable TMs known by either parent.
2. Egg moves known by father.
3. Level-up moves known by BOTH parents.
4. Normal level 1 moves for Pokemon.

All eggs hatched from the same parents have the same moves. And seriously, no TMs? Flamethrower? Focus Blast? Return? Pretty much -anything- is preferable to Double Kick. o.o

By the way, I taught my Feraligatr on Silver Surf, Strength, Waterfall and Whirlpool. Tough.

Overheat is a good TM.

Oh. I need help breeding because i have a problem finding out which to pokemon can breed. The eggs, Torchic, get Tm's. They keep em too. I mean some dont even evolve [i.e LVL 50 torchic]

I would never do that I found out the hard way with HM's. Could never get past the elite 4 with a HM [i.e Blazeiken vs. Phobe] even when I was on lvl 84. Didnt do anything and my cousin had to set me up with the moveset i have now. Ive grown attached, since it was my first permanent moveset ever [Ruby first pokemon game]. I just see it that HM slaves are needed and are uselful in battle as revives. Once though they are done and I have fly and have no need for them they get the moves deleted and leveled up, but a Feraligator with those moves is just wrong

Rock Smash is a great move for a tank, at least while progressing through the game. Having something that can take hits while lowering the opponent's Defense is fun.

I gave it those moves because I had -nothing- else that could learn 'em. Frankly, my starter on that game managed to end up one of my worst Pokemon. My Pidgeot was much better. (And yes, I -do- use a Pidgeot. I don't adhere to tier-rules, I just happen to see their purpose).

If your hatched Torchics don't evolve, there's either something wrong with your game, they're holding Everstones, or you hit B every time they try. Also, they're -supposed- to hatch with TM moves. And you should check Serebii or some other Pokemon resource for help with egg groups.

Anyways... this is getting -very- off topic.

yeah back to topic.

If some legends ore like overpowered then why were they made if they can sweep teams.

Well, I already answered that: they're more or less a handicap. They're in the game to help you through the difficult parts of the game; likewise, they're perfectly reasonable to use in friendly matches if both players are okay with it. Conversely, I'd be mad if somebody just decided to have a Mewtwo on their team against me, when I'm using a bunch of 'average' Pokemon.

As for competitive matches: the uber tier is practically -all- legendaries. And I'm all for the idea of allowing one uber per team in standard matches, simply because Kyogre and Groudon have amazing weather support abilities.

But legendaries are in the game for the same reason that your starter comes 2-3 levels higher than the initial wild Pokemon, and that most starter evolutions have above-average stats. It's a handicap, plain and simple. It's the game's way of making things a little bit easier for the player to progress in the story.

I dunno about everyone else, but I'd fail forever if I had to start with one of the usual basic normal types- Rattata, etc.- instead of one of the usual starter Pokemon. Likewise, legendaries may not make it possible to auto-win the Pokemon League, but they sure make things a lot easier.

Well that is why If i play matches either ubers are banned or onle one or two.
There is a reason for why the pokemon is stronger. Remeber when eggs used to be hatching at level 5. Well that is the reason. I think those pokemon are like egg pokemon.
Peronsally I only really mess with my lengendary after the Elite 4 unless im getting my but beat so bad i actually use them as assistance.